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David Louis Harter
01-09-2008, 10:21 AM
Obama's church: More about Africa than God?

Chicago congregation has 'non-negotiable commitment' to 'mother continent'

Posted: January 9, 2008
1:00 a.m. Eastern


By Ron Strom
© 2008


While some election commentators are looking carefully at the level of devotion Sen. Barack Obama has to Islam, it is the strong African-centered and race-based philosophy of the senator's United Church of Christ that has some bloggers crying foul.

Obama and Wright

Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago is where Obama was baptized as a Christian two decades ago, even borrowing the title for one of his books, "The Audacity of Hope," from a sermon by his senior pastor, the Rev. Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr.

The first paragraph of the "About Us" section of the church's website mentions the word "black" or "Africa" five times:

We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian. ... Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.

Focus on the African continent continues in two of the 10-point vision of the church:


A congregation committed to ADORATION.
A congregation preaching SALVATION.
A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.
A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY.
Commented Florida blogger "Ric" in discussing vision No. 4: "Commitment to Africa? I thought Christians were to have a commitment to God alone?"

The blogger continued: "First off just by this 10-point layout describing Barack Obama's church, we see that on some issues they are not clear. Even though it sounds good to the reader, it still leaves one guessing and not knowing where they truly stand as a congregation.

"Second, the church seems to place Africa and African people before God, and says nothing about other races in their community or a commitment to help the people in their community.

"Third, the church seems to promote communism by the term they use called 'economic parity.' Is this what Barack Obama truly believes?"

On another page on the website, Pastor Wright explains his theology, saying it is "based upon the systematized liberation theology that started in 1969 with the publication of Dr. James Cone's book, 'Black Power and Black Theology.'

"Black theology is one of the many theologies in the Americas that became popular during the liberation theology movement. They include Hispanic theology, Native American theology, Asian theology and Womanist theology."

Wright rebuts those who might call his philosophy racist, saying, "To have a church whose theological perspective starts from the vantage point of black liberation theology being its center is not to say that African or African-American people are superior to any one else.

"African-centered thought, unlike Eurocentrism, does not assume superiority and look at everyone else as being inferior."

The church's official mission statement says it has been "called by God to be a congregation that is not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ and that does not apologize for its African roots!"

The Jan. 6 Sunday bulletin had an announcement about how to register for the winter Bible study held by the "Center for African Biblical Studies."

Another page in the 36-page bulletin announced the "Black and Christian New Member Class." All those wanting to become full-fledged members of Trinity "MUST complete your new member class!" warned the announcement, which included a schedule of class times. There was no mention of what class a prospective member might take if he or she were not black.

Demonstrating the church's quest toward "economic parity," one of the associate pastors, the Rev. Reginald Williams Jr., wrote a blurb in the bulletin decrying the powers that be for not making "fresh food stores" available in the black neighborhoods of Chicago.

Wrote Williams in a discussion of infant mortality in the black community: "In West Englewood, one of the five worst areas in the city, McDonald's restaurants abound, while fresh food stores are lacking. The same resources should be made available in each and every neighborhood in this city.

"This is an issue which we must all attack. We must push our policymakers for programs for health education, good stores for proper nutrition and access to health care."

The thought for the day on the same page was a quote from former Rep. Shirley Chisholm: "Health is a human right, not a privilege to be purchased."

Obama recently talked about his faith with the Concord, N.H., Monitor.

"I've always said that my faith informs my values, and in that sense it helps shape my worldview, and I don't think anyone should be required to leave their religious sensibilities at the door," Obama told the paper last week. "But we have to translate those concerns into a universal language that can be subject to argument and doesn't turn into a contest of any one of us thinking that God is somehow on our side."

The candidate told the Monitor he doesn't buy everything his pastor proclaims, saying: "There are some things I agree with my pastor about, some things I disagree with him about. I come from a complex racial background with a lot of different strains in me: white, black, I grew up in Hawaii. I tend to have a strong streak of universalism, not just in my religious beliefs, but in my ethical and moral beliefs."

Obama's popularity has soared in the last several days, with journalists from NBC even admitting to getting caught up in the "feel good" aura of the campaign.

As WND reported, the network's Brian Williams noted on MSNBC yesterday: ""[Reporter] Lee [Cowan] says it's hard to stay objective covering this guy. Courageous for Lee to say, to be honest. ... I think it is a very interesting dynamic."

Mt. Mama
01-09-2008, 11:01 AM
Definitely not good for America...:(

David Louis Harter
01-09-2008, 11:25 AM
Definitely not good for America...:(

Definitely. I saw an interview with a Republican political analyst yesterday on the Fox News Channel. He said that he visited an Obama rally recently and said that Obama is "frighteningly charismatic and seductive" (his words), because he had the ability to captivate an audience and bend it to his will. The analyst said he found himself being caught up in the excitement and needed to remind himself that he was in the "camp of the enemy" (his words).

Mt. Mama
01-09-2008, 11:32 AM
Definitely. I saw an interview with a Republican political analyst yesterday on the Fox News Channel. He said that he visited an Obama rally recently and said that Obama is "frighteningly charismatic and seductive" (his words), because he had the ability to captivate an audience and bend it to his will. The analyst said he found himself being caught up in the excitement and needed to remind himself that he was in the "camp of the enemy" (his words).
Now that's scary stuff right there! Bad...very, very bad! :eek:

David Louis Harter
01-09-2008, 11:57 AM
Now that's scary stuff right there! Bad...very, very bad! :eek:

Indeed it is. He has the ability to captivate an audience--not altogether unlike other leaders that have proven to be very bad for their countries. He has good speech writers, an affable presence, and near-perfect timing. He is a dangerous man.

Mt. Mama
01-09-2008, 02:16 PM
It's always scary when someone identifies with their roots!

</end sarcasm>

That article sounds like political BS to me, to be honest. The author says nothing, then wants us to be afraid of that "nothing".


Did you read the previous posting "Obama's church: More about Africa than God? "

What you call "nothing" is a man with qualities which enable him to persuade masses of people to his way of thinking. A person such as this, can easily manipulate people who are unsure or wishy-washy in their thinking and perception of things. And therefore "dangerous".

People who are stable on their views and their "God given wisdom" do not "fear" such a man. Instead, they become very skeptical and watchful of unfolding events. History has taught us that men of this caliber often, if not always, become "power hungry" and lead their people/country into destruction.

David Louis Harter
01-09-2008, 02:29 PM
A person such as this, can easily manipulate people who are unsure or wishy-washy in their thinking and perception of things. And therefore "dangerous".

When I watch Obama speak (I must admit, this is a rarity), I am reminded of other powerful speakers, who have risen to become leaders and proven to be highly dangerous.

History has taught us that men of this caliber often, if not always, become "power hungry" and lead their people/country into destruction.

This is very true, in my opinion.

All leaders are persuasive. How do you know whether a person is a good faith leader or some who is dangerous in his beliefs? Here are some signals:

Is he humble when someone challenges his vision? Leaders who are defensive and attack critics eventually prove to be dangerous.

How are his relationships with those closest to him? People are themselves with those to whom they are closest.

Is he eager to learn from those around him? Even the most visionary leader is not as resourceful as the group he leads.

Humble hierarchy leaders have little personal ambition, an unwavering will to help the organization transform the lives of those it serves, and a passion to create space for all to thrive.

David Louis Harter
01-09-2008, 02:35 PM
It's always scary when someone identifies with their roots!


This is particularly true of Scientologists. Of course, those "roots" are imagined--the product of unbalanced minds following the idiotic mental meanderings of a hack sci-fi writer, L. Ron Hubbard.

David Louis Harter
01-09-2008, 02:59 PM
Humans... is there any hope at all?

Red mutant eyes gazed down on hunger city-no more big wheels-fleas the size of rats sucked on cats the size of rats, and ten thousand peoploids coveted the tallest of the sterile skyscraper.

Whew! It was only a mid-afternoon nightmare! Great Scott, there is yet hope!

David Louis Harter
01-09-2008, 03:03 PM
And in the death

As the last few corpses lay rotting on the slimy
thoroughfare

The shutters lifted in inches in Temperance Building

High on Poacher's Hill

And red, mutant eyes gaze down on Hunger City

No more big wheels

Fleas the size of rats sucked on rats the size of cats

And ten thousand peoploids split into small tribes

Coverting the highest of the sterile skyscrapers

Like packs of dogs assaulting the glass fronts of Love-Me Avenue

Ripping and rewrapping mink and shiny silver fox, now legwarmers

Family badge of sapphire and cracked emerald

Any day now

The Year of the Diamond Dogs

"This ain't Rock'n'Roll
This is Genocide"

Mt. Mama
01-09-2008, 03:37 PM
Oh no! A political figure being persuasive! Imagine that!
Yes, all political figures are persuasive to some degree.


I've never seen such a thing in churches! </end sarcasm again>

Really...most good teachers have this "quality" also.


What is wrong with a person being a good, motivational speaker? In most churches across this great country you'll find the same thing. In the halls of our government buildings in every state you'll find that as well.

There is nothing wrong with being a good motivational speeker. But that is dependant on how this "quality" is used.

I am shaking my head in astonishment that there are even comments being made about the charisma of a man running for President. MOST political candidates share this quality. And that is EXACTLY what it is, a QUALITY. Not something to be feared.
Don't wrench your neck Donny...it's not worth it! :) But there you go with that "fear" statement again.
Why is it that we're always so afraid of those who don't share identical views as we do?
And again...

Such fears lead to nothing but negative.
And again...
Simply because someone is of different party affiliation, or even different religious beliefs, as we are does NOT make them an enemy, nor dangerous. Jeez.
Okay...but the potential of it becoming that way is higher in this instance. Whereas, if the man becomes the President of this nation, the possibility of it becoming a fiasco for the rest of us, is greater than it might otherwise be.
And my other point is, I AM NOT FEARFUL OR AFRAID...I AM SKEPTICAL AND WATCHFUL.
Humans... is there any hope at all?
Only if we put our trust in our Father and not man!

John Hunt
01-09-2008, 04:39 PM
Donny, I can't read on, you lost me at post #6 with your improper Hyper Text Markup.

You did this...
It's always scary when someone identifies with their roots!

</end sarcasm>


When you should have done this....
<sarcasm>It's always scary when someone identifies with their roots!</sarcasm>


Or, better yet, this.....
<!-- Donny Pauling comment with sarcasm -->
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Pauling Sarcasm</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<TABLE CELLPADDING=5 CELLSPACING=4 BORDER=0 ALIGN="LEFT" VALIGN="TOP" BGCOLOR="#FFFFFF">
<TR>
<TD><FONT SIZE="+1" FACE="Arial" COLOR="Black"><sarcasm><B>It's <I>always</I> <U>scary</U> when someone <U>identifies</U> with their roots!</B></sarcasm></FONT></TD>
</TR>
</TABLE>
</BODY>
</HTML>


:haha:

David Louis Harter
01-09-2008, 05:03 PM
Donny, I can't read on, you lost me at post #6 with your improper Hyper Text Markup.
You did this...
When you should have done this....
Or, better yet, this.....

:haha:

John, dial-up is beginning to get to you, I fear. You are showing signs of stress! :haha:

Mt. Mama
01-09-2008, 05:30 PM
Okay...I'm COMPLETELY lost on this one....:confused:

And in the death

As the last few corpses lay rotting on the slimy
thoroughfare

The shutters lifted in inches in Temperance Building

High on Poacher's Hill

And red, mutant eyes gaze down on Hunger City

No more big wheels

Fleas the size of rats sucked on rats the size of cats

And ten thousand peoploids split into small tribes

Coverting the highest of the sterile skyscrapers

Like packs of dogs assaulting the glass fronts of Love-Me Avenue

Ripping and rewrapping mink and shiny silver fox, now legwarmers

Family badge of sapphire and cracked emerald

Any day now

The Year of the Diamond Dogs

"This ain't Rock'n'Roll
This is Genocide"

Mt. Mama
01-09-2008, 05:42 PM
John, dial-up is beginning to get to you, I fear. You are showing signs of stress! :haha:
Poor John, 10-102! It's tough having to slow down when your used to go-go-go! :haha:

David Louis Harter
01-09-2008, 05:52 PM
Okay...I'm COMPLETELY lost on this one....:confused:

It is from "Diamond Dogs" by David Bowie. It offers a bleak vision of what the world would be like if Hillary Clinton were president. :evilgrin:

David Louis Harter
01-09-2008, 05:54 PM
Poor John, 10-102! It's tough having to slow down when your used to go-go-go! :haha:

At least he has power, otherwise he would be watching television by candlelight! :haha:

Mt. Mama
01-10-2008, 12:48 AM
It is from "Diamond Dogs" by David Bowie. It offers a bleak vision of what the world would be like if Hillary Clinton were president. :evilgrin:
Ahhh...okay...that makes more sense! :haha:

Mt. Mama
01-10-2008, 12:53 AM
At least he has power, otherwise he would be watching television by candlelight! :haha:
Been there, done that...now I just watch tele in the dark! Or I play here on the forum in the dark! (Got a light-up keyboard). Tee hee hee! :evilgrin: